Epi ES-335 help

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3 things. First... My output jack fell into the guitar and when trying to put it back I accidentally cut a wire. It was a thin black wire and all electronics still work, but the guitar buzzes if I don't touch some metal on it now. And even then it buzzes a lot now, but before the wire got cut it didn't buzz at all.

Second - I'm not too fond of the neck heel strap buttons. I think you can see where this is going. Is it possible to put an endpin/strap button on the top horn of the ES-335? I did it to my SG and it went great, and I'm now curious if I could do it on my Epi ES.

Ok, last thing - The output jack took 2 hours to get back into place. I'm not doing that again. I got so angry that I was going to smash the guitar. But I didn't, luckily. So, would it be possible to add a backplate to allow for easier access to the control panel? Like the SG.

I will attach photos of my guitar but because it's 10 pm where I am right now it's too late to take photos. We turn off all lights in the house at night and they don't come back on until 5 am. I will be able to attach more close-up photos in the morning, but I will attach generic photos of my ES here. If it's possible, I would have my luthier do it, as I am way too scared about it - plus I don't wanna be the person to blame for mess-ups. Anyway, I gotta head to bed. Lights are out and I'm tired. Extra photos will be attached in the morn. Please help me with this.
 
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RR-Ramblers

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1st off, take a deep breath and relax.

Black wires are ground wires, so if its cut, the electronics will still work, but since it is not now grounded, hence the buzz.

My take is that it is a simple problem & simple fix that you will find satisfaction doing it yourself. Of course, a luthier can do it for $$ and save you the headache of figuring out WTF is going on and most luthiers are generally very helpful. Plus, they are quick and have more tools than the average guitarist.

A few things here....335's, archtops in general are a little tricky to work on, but luthiers and builders do it, so can you. Sounds like the black wire was the ground wire from the 3 way switch to the jack.

A tip on fishing jacks and pots through holes in an archtop - when the jack is out of its hole, inside the guitar, fish it through the "f" hole. Next, and there are various ways to do it, you can then put a string or strong thread through the jack opening from the outside and get it to where you can see it through the "f" hole and fish it out.

Put it through the jack, then you can attach a big enough washer to the string behind the jack and then pull on the string from the outside and it will pull the jack to the hole easily for you to quickly fit it to the jack hole so you can screw it back, then release the string with the washer and fish it out of the f hole.

When fishing volume or tone pots that are unscrewed from the holes, a similar method works - send a thread or a string from the outside of the pot hole then tie it to the loose volume or tone pot pole (where the knob would attach once back in place). Stew Mac has a "335" pot device that helps also, looks like a coat hanger contraption.

If the black wire came from the jack, then it is easy to solder it back to the jack. Any guitar owner should be able to do basic soldering, if you are so inclined.

Basically, that black wire has to attach somewhere if it is cut or came loose. From the sound of it, it's the ground wire to the jack, or unlikely the bridge ground wire. You need to find out where it goes, so you may have to take the jack back out to solder.

Here is a 335 wiring diagram (from Solo guitars) to give you an idea what you are working with, black being ground wires.

For the end pin strap button, you (or your luthier) can put one on the top horn of the cutaway, but you'll be diminishing the value of the guitar, unless that doesn't really matter, a lot of folks mod their guitars to their liking.

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable luthiers here that can give better help than I.

Robbie


solo-esk-335-wiring-diagram-fig-5.jpg

......and a tip on internet/blog writing etiquette.... one long [email protected]$ paragraph is very hard to read, break it up.
 

Davis Sharp

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Welcome to Epi-Talk. And welcome to the wonderful world of working with hollow guitars . Yes, you can add a strap button on the upper horn. A member on Strat-Talk did it by gluing a slice of a 1 inch dowel on the inside for support. I imagine that he drilled a small hole in the dowel and the upped horn, dabbed some glue on the dowel, and pulled it tight with fishing line or something. Good luck.
 
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1st off, take a deep breath and relax.

Black wires are ground wires, so if its cut, the electronics will still work, but since it is not now grounded, hence the buzz.

My take is that it is a simple problem & simple fix that you will find satisfaction doing it yourself. Of course, a luthier can do it for $$ and save you the headache of figuring out WTF is going on and most luthiers are generally very helpful. Plus, they are quick and have more tools than the average guitarist.

A few things here....335's, archtops in general are a little tricky to work on, but luthiers and builders do it, so can you. Sounds like the black wire was the ground wire from the 3 way switch to the jack.

A tip on fishing jacks and pots through holes in an archtop - when the jack is out of its hole, inside the guitar, fish it through the "f" hole. Next, and there are various ways to do it, you can then put a string or strong thread through the jack opening from the outside and get it to where you can see it through the "f" hole and fish it out.

Put it through the jack, then you can attach a big enough washer to the string behind the jack and then pull on the string from the outside and it will pull the jack to the hole easily for you to quickly fit it to the jack hole so you can screw it back, then release the string with the washer and fish it out of the f hole.

When fishing volume or tone pots that are unscrewed from the holes, a similar method works - send a thread or a string from the outside of the pot hole then tie it to the loose volume or tone pot pole (where the knob would attach once back in place). Stew Mac has a "335" pot device that helps also, looks like a coat hanger contraption.

If the black wire came from the jack, then it is easy to solder it back to the jack. Any guitar owner should be able to do basic soldering, if you are so inclined.

Basically, that black wire has to attach somewhere if it is cut or came loose. From the sound of it, it's the ground wire to the jack, or unlikely the bridge ground wire. You need to find out where it goes, so you may have to take the jack back out to solder.

Here is a 335 wiring diagram (from Solo guitars) to give you an idea what you are working with, black being ground wires.

For the end pin strap button, you (or your luthier) can put one on the top horn of the cutaway, but you'll be diminishing the value of the guitar, unless that doesn't really matter, a lot of folks mod their guitars to their liking.

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable luthiers here that can give better help than I.

Robbie


View attachment 18421

......and a tip on internet/blog writing etiquette.... one long [email protected]$ paragraph is very hard to read, break it up.
With me, I don't plan on selling it as I will never get the $430 I paid for it back. Unless eventually, Epiphones become vintage and worth a lot, I won't be selling them. The same story with my SG, but my Les Paul specials will be sold eventually to get a Les Paul Standard and Classic from Epiphone, in order to line up with my SG. We used a bent coathanger to pull the output jack back into its hole and then put the washer & nut on the coathanger to fall to the jack, while pulling up, and screwing them in. After which when trying to get it out it cut a wire on the sharp ends. Every electronic work as I said, so I concluded it to be a grounding issue (most likely) due to touching metal on the guitar stopping the buzz.
 
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It says the files are too large to upload so I will upload them to Mediafire and share them here.
 

pontaeri

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ES are hard to work on (as opposed to teles or strats / LP, I helped a friend and it took us 2 days several hours to replace all electronics and pu's . . . then our local guitar shop ES guy did it in around 30 mins lol), but some luthiers make it look easy.

Biggest take aways is sometimes have to put it down and walk away, do something else and come back.
And key is making a wiring harness (like in the picture)


As already stated, have find out where the wire goes to and hopefully it cut by a solder join (which means you can reuse it), it was cut in the middle, might have solder a new ground wire(s)


You can install a back plate but it'll take some wood working skill and using extra wood blocks glued inside for support / screw holes. If you're going to do this, I'd say do this first, then you have access to putting the horn strap button wood piece . . .


Some Epiphones ES have a large hole connecting the pot chambers from the pick up cavities and you can remove the electronics that way.


Sometimes the F holes are smaller than norm and barely fit the pots . . . you have to tetris (or play with angles and position of pots to fit through like its a puzzle game).



For the pots closest to F holes you can use fingers, forceps, violin S style sound post setter (the one with club end) and long thin screwdriver to install them. This way you don't have 4 strings (as they can get crossed and confusion) and use only two for the pots farthest from the f holes


That said, have to find a method of keeping trACK of the strings, and so they don't get in each other's way . . .

Also some use surgical tubing on the pot ends and pull them up that way.


example vid of the type of work:
 

soulman969

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Relative to that video about the Casino and the stock pickups the tone of them could also be improved greatly simply by replacing the stock metal pickup covers with nickel silver ones. The stock ones are not.
 
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If the black wire came from the jack, then it is easy to solder it back to the jack. Any guitar owner should be able to do basic soldering, if you are so inclined.
This is a late reply but I forgot to do this when this thread was active
The wire was cut after we put the jack back in. We got the jack in, and we were trying to take out the bent coathanger. It snagged something, probably the ground wire, and we accidentally pulled the wire, breaking it in half. I can't do soldering and only just bought a soldering gun to learn.

For the end pin strap button, you (or your luthier) can put one on the top horn of the cutaway, but you'll be diminishing the value of the guitar, unless that doesn't really matter, a lot of folks mod their guitars to their liking.
I'm sure he can do it, but I can also probably do it janky.
My way of making holes is usually using a screw & screwdriver. But this time that won't work for an endpin. So I'm gonna measure the size of my acoustics endpin and see if my drill can do the job. I'm low on money and can't keep paying this guy $45 whenever I need help.

Ultimately, I'm gonna leave the ground wire broken, and I'm gonna make the hole myself with a drill.
 
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Watch the YouTube videos by the guitaristas:





Your best friend for pulling things through the body will be rubber surgical or fish tank tube, even clear plastic tube from home depot. Slip the tube over the pot shafts BEFORE you remove them, make sure its a tight fit, then push or pull (or push and pull) them through the body. You may also find you can fit pots through a hole from the pickup cavity.

For fixing your ground wire, try using a "messenger wire" or a piece of string even, pushed or pulled through the output jack or selector switch hole back towards the control cavity. Feed it through one way, tape or knot the proper wire to the end, then pull it back the other way.
 
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Watch the YouTube videos by the guitaristas:





Your best friend for pulling things through the body will be rubber surgical or fish tank tube, even clear plastic tube from home depot. Slip the tube over the pot shafts BEFORE you remove them, make sure its a tight fit, then push or pull (or push and pull) them through the body. You may also find you can fit pots through a hole from the pickup cavity.

For fixing your ground wire, try using a "messenger wire" or a piece of string even, pushed or pulled through the output jack or selector switch hole back towards the control cavity. Feed it through one way, tape or knot the proper wire to the end, then pull it back the other way.

probably will just leave the ground wire alone... it doesn't bother me too much. Everything still functions so if I ever replace the electronics I'll just fix it then, otherwise, I'll leave it.

And also I don't know if it's the output jack. The output jack was in place and when taking to coathanger out of the f-hole a wire broke. It could be the output jack, but I have no way of knowing unless I fish everything out which since the guitar works fine right now I'm not gonna do... If I break something electronic the guitar needs to go to a luthier that's across the state... the shop won't fix it and my normal luthier won't either, and I really don't know anything about the electronics.

Nobody around my area deals with semi-hollows or hollow bodies. No matter how simple or hard of a fix, everything is quadruple the normal solid-body price from the shop and luthier I go to, just because of the hassle of everything. For example, pickup replacements in solid bodies (if you buy the pickups) are $50. It's $200 for a semi-hollow and $150 for a hollow. This is buying the pickups and just having them install 1. Since there are 2, that's double even those prices. And my luthier just refuses to deal with the semi-hollows or hollows unless his labour cost is increased to $105. (3x his normal cost)
 

syco

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probably will just leave the ground wire alone... it doesn't bother me too much. Everything still functions so if I ever replace the electronics I'll just fix it then, otherwise, I'll leave it.

And also I don't know if it's the output jack. The output jack was in place and when taking to coathanger out of the f-hole a wire broke. It could be the output jack, but I have no way of knowing unless I fish everything out which since the guitar works fine right now I'm not gonna do... If I break something electronic the guitar needs to go to a luthier that's across the state... the shop won't fix it and my normal luthier won't either, and I really don't know anything about the electronics.

Nobody around my area deals with semi-hollows or hollow bodies. No matter how simple or hard of a fix, everything is quadruple the normal solid-body price from the shop and luthier I go to, just because of the hassle of everything. For example, pickup replacements in solid bodies (if you buy the pickups) are $50. It's $200 for a semi-hollow and $150 for a hollow. This is buying the pickups and just having them install 1. Since there are 2, that's double even those prices. And my luthier just refuses to deal with the semi-hollows or hollows unless his labour cost is increased to $105. (3x his normal cost)
I have nobody in my area that works on guitars . That's why I learned how to do it . That's why it's a good idea to invest now and learn to do this on your own . It might postpone the "grandiose " ideas in your head for a bit , but in the long run it's cheaper and quicker .
 
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I have nobody in my area that works on guitars . That's why I learned how to do it . That's why it's a good idea to invest now and learn to do this on your own . It might postpone the "grandiose " ideas in your head for a bit , but in the long run it's cheaper and quicker .
yeah you are right
 
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probably will just leave the ground wire alone... it doesn't bother me too much. Everything still functions so if I ever replace the electronics I'll just fix it then, otherwise, I'll leave it.

And also I don't know if it's the output jack. The output jack was in place and when taking to coathanger out of the f-hole a wire broke. It could be the output jack, but I have no way of knowing unless I fish everything out which since the guitar works fine right now I'm not gonna do... If I break something electronic the guitar needs to go to a luthier that's across the state... the shop won't fix it and my normal luthier won't either, and I really don't know anything about the electronics.

Nobody around my area deals with semi-hollows or hollow bodies. No matter how simple or hard of a fix, everything is quadruple the normal solid-body price from the shop and luthier I go to, just because of the hassle of everything. For example, pickup replacements in solid bodies (if you buy the pickups) are $50. It's $200 for a semi-hollow and $150 for a hollow. This is buying the pickups and just having them install 1. Since there are 2, that's double even those prices. And my luthier just refuses to deal with the semi-hollows or hollows unless his labour cost is increased to $105. (3x his normal cost)
Buy a $15 multimeter and check the connections. The bridge should be grounded to something. If not its the most likely cause of your hum. The only way the guitar would ground, if the ground to the output jack is broken, is through you.

Pickups are pickups. There's no reason why pickups foe a semi hollow or a hollow should cost more to buy. To install, you can either use the messenger wire technique* or just cut the old pickup wires at the pickup ends and splice in the new ones.

* Disconnect the pickup wires in the control cavity. Attach a piece of string to the each of the ends. When you remove the old pickups, make sure the string follows to old wires into the pickup cavities. Then just connect the new wires instead of the old ones and pull them back through.
 

Cozmik Cowboy

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RR-Rambler's & ThreeChordWonder's takes on fishing things through the ƒ-holes come close. But when I had to put a new harness in my Sheraton (what every 335 wishes it was.....) I tried tubing, then I tried twine. What ended up working was 22ga solid-core wire; that got the pots & switch exactly where I wanted them. For the jack rand the wire in the jack hole and out the ƒ-hole, tied a string to it with RR's tying trick (though I used a nut); after the jack was in place, I untied the string from the wire & pulled it back out the ƒ-hole.

I would not put a strap button on the upper bout of a semi; I can pretty much promise you that it will pull out of the (very thin) wood there. Even if you dowel it, the dowel is only supported by the thin wood.

I wouldn't leave the ground off; not only is it annoyingly noisy, but that ground helps protect you from electrical shock. If you're not interested in doing it, it should a fairly inexpensive job for any semi-qualified tech.

And yes, you can put a back door on it - but that is something I would only leave to a highly skilled luthier (and note that I am differentiating betwixt "luthiers" and "techs" here).
 
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I would not put a strap button on the upper bout of a semi;
I would use an endpin. It holds by friction. I know how to fix enlarged endpin holes, too. Just put some masking tape around the endpin... so that should work. The strap button would require a piece of wood to be put inside.
And there isn't really anyone willing to do it for cheap around me, sure I could go across the state but thats like something to do in a day... it takes two hours to get to the place where they are experienced enough to be able to do it right then and there.
 

Cozmik Cowboy

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I would use an endpin. It holds by friction. I know how to fix enlarged endpin holes, too. Just put some masking tape around the endpin... so that should work. The strap button would require a piece of wood to be put inside.
And there isn't really anyone willing to do it for cheap around me, sure I could go across the state but thats like something to do in a day... it takes two hours to get to the place where they are experienced enough to be able to do it right then and there.
An endpin is designed to go into a tailblock & hold the weight of an acoustic; you're talking about putting it in a 1/8" thick piece of wood to hold several times that weight. It won't. I don't see any way to add wood inside there without removing the top or back (or cutting off the bout); I promise that will cost a lot more than you paid for the guitar. And if you're going to those lengths, why use an endpin? Screw a proper Schaller strap lock into your new wood.

I will add - in 30 years I have never had a problem with the stock placement on my Sheri (or on a number of other semis before it).
 
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It all depends how thick the wood is, of course.

On my thinline Teles the wood in tip of the upper bout was thick enough to fit a Schaller strap lock without going through into air behind.
 
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An endpin is designed to go into a tailblock & hold the weight of an acoustic; you're talking about putting it in a 1/8" thick piece of wood to hold several times that weight. It won't. I don't see any way to add wood inside there without removing the top or back (or cutting off the bout); I promise that will cost a lot more than you paid for the guitar. And if you're going to those lengths, why use an endpin? Screw a proper Schaller strap lock into your new wood.

I will add - in 30 years I have never had a problem with the stock placement on my Sheri (or on a number of other semis before it).
I paid $430 for the guitar. I ain't selling it. How much will that cost to cut a part of the back off and put in a block of wood and then glue the back on?

I hate the strap button placement because it does something I call "body dive" (though that term is used for something else as well). I call it "body dive" when the guitar falls forward from you. On EVERYTHING, and I do mean EVERYTHING with a neck heel strap button that happens. My SGs, my ESs (that's all the neck heel strap button guitars I have). People told me NOT to put a strap button on the top horn of my SG, even my luthier told me that, but I denied everyone and decided I will take my risk. And it went perfectly. Now I have a second SG & I'm gonna do the same thing. But the only one that still is somewhat uncomfortable to play on a strap is my ES-335.

The placement of the strap button naturally causes it to fall forward, so I have to hold it back towards me when I play, which just like holding an SG with neck dive up, is TIRING. But I love the ES-335, and this time I don't see an excuse why they can't just put a piece of wood there from the factory and put it on the top horn. It's large enough. Even double-cut Les Pauls have it on the top horn despite it being the size of an SG horn. So there really is no excuse why Gibson when designing this guitar couldn't just do that. And they refuse to fix it even though people complain. They are going down the path of a dying company and bringing Epiphone along with them.
 

Cozmik Cowboy

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I paid $430 for the guitar. I ain't selling it. How much will that cost to cut a part of the back off and put in a block of wood and then glue the back on?

I hate the strap button placement because it does something I call "body dive" (though that term is used for something else as well). I call it "body dive" when the guitar falls forward from you. On EVERYTHING, and I do mean EVERYTHING with a neck heel strap button that happens. My SGs, my ESs (that's all the neck heel strap button guitars I have). People told me NOT to put a strap button on the top horn of my SG, even my luthier told me that, but I denied everyone and decided I will take my risk. And it went perfectly. Now I have a second SG & I'm gonna do the same thing. But the only one that still is somewhat uncomfortable to play on a strap is my ES-335.

The placement of the strap button naturally causes it to fall forward, so I have to hold it back towards me when I play, which just like holding an SG with neck dive up, is TIRING. But I love the ES-335, and this time I don't see an excuse why they can't just put a piece of wood there from the factory and put it on the top horn. It's large enough. Even double-cut Les Pauls have it on the top horn despite it being the size of an SG horn. So there really is no excuse why Gibson when designing this guitar couldn't just do that. And they refuse to fix it even though people complain. They are going down the path of a dying company and bringing Epiphone along with them.
Yeah, it works fine on an SG; the S stands for "solid" - it will serve to anchor the screw. As to "front dive", I haven't spent enough time on SGs to notice, but on ESs & jazz boxes, if it's there at all the large lower bass bout under my upper arm counters it so well that I have never noticed it. Moving the button from the heel to the upper bass bout would be much more effective at countering neck dive.

Of course, I mostly play acoustic, with the button on the bottom of the heel where the strap should, by your reasoning, actively pull the top away from the body, and I've never noticed it there, either (for purposes of comprehensiveness, this has held true from when I was a 180 lb young stud to now, when an old fart who weighs.....um, not 180.....).

Also, I believe that any guitar worth playing is deserving of respect, and am basing my assumptions on avoiding making the poor instrument look like Eddie Van Halen got his hands on it or something.
 


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