Help with rewiring 2022 Epi Les Paul Classic

[Diamond Dave]

Hello,

My 2022 Epi Les Paul Classic has two push-pull volume pots for coil splitting, one push-pull tone for phase switching, and one regular tone pot. I want to yank all the push-pull out and just wire it with two volumes and two tones, no splitting and no phase switching.

Question is--what do I need for modern Les Paul wiring?

I am thinking:

Two 300k linear taper volume pots
Two 500k audio taper tone pots
Two orange drop caps? .022? Something else that is 0.047?

Thoughts? Thank you!

 

[BGood]

I would go for four 500K and any 0.022 cap will do, to the cheapest to the most expensive. The rest of the electronics and mechanical parts are good quality, no need to "upgrade".

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

I would use:
1. Four 500k TAOT CTS pots (10% tolerance) w/ 3/8ths bushing diameter and 3/8ths bushing length;
2. Two 0.022 uF 200 volt* orange drop tone caps, or one 0.022 on the bridge and one 0.015 on the neck;
3 A genuine Switchcraft long frame toggle switch **;
4 A Puretone dual contact output socket***;
5. Gavitt cloth covered wire;
6. Copper foil shielding tape****.

* Half the size of 400 volt ones. You don't need 400 200 volt ones, let alone 400, and you could use cheap ceramic or polyester ones, but the orange drops look the part. Paper in oil (PIO) caps are very expensive and eventually leak, but use them if you must.

** You need the long frame one so you can run the wires parallel to the frame to get the switch and the wires in to hole provided. A short frame will do, but its a PITA to fit.

*** A "while youre at it..." mod, $8.

**** Buy it by the roll from Aazon, not Stewmac and not Home Depot.

Optionally you can add 1/4 inch metal braid sheathing to go over the wires to and from the selector switch. This shields the wires. Solder wire "tails" to each end of the sheathing. Solder one tail to the ground lug on the switch and the other to a pot casing.

 

[Diamond Dave]

Thanks folks. Yeah, I really just want to swap the pots; everything else is either good quality or serviceable. I've swapped out everything in a strat before but never an LP or something with humbuckers. The advice is much appreciated!

 

[Raiyn]

Two orange drop caps? .022? Something else that is 0.047?

0.047μF is a single coil cap. Too dark for 'buckers. You don't "need" Orange Drops either. The important things are the value as the tolerance to the stated value. A 5% CBB is going to be more accurate than a 20% Orange Drop you bought from George's Geetar Grotto. I don't stock anything higher than 5% tolerance.
It should be noted that anything that goes through the cap goes to ground - it doesn't add anything. I've used everything from Radio Shack Chiclets to vintage Mullard Tropical Fish in guitars and none of them made me sound like anyone else.

* Half the size of 400 volt ones. You don't need 400 200 volt ones, let alone 400, and you could use cheap ceramic or polyester ones, but the orange drops look the part. Paper in oil (PIO) caps are very expensive and eventually leak, but use them if you must.

The only thing the voltage rating does in a guitar is change the physical size of the cap. My more recent builds have been 50V caps so they're out of the way. If he's doing the traditional "Gibson" style wiring an axial cap like a Mallory 150 (which are stock - at least in the nicer Epi's) or this 2% Electrocube would be a good choice.


Small caps work real nice.

 

[Raiyn]

Thanks folks. Yeah, I really just want to swap the pots; everything else is either good quality or serviceable. I've swapped out everything in a strat before but never an LP or something with humbuckers. The advice is much appreciated!

'nuff said. I back this. Art of Tone 525K ±5% pots are my go to.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

0.047μF is a single coil cap. Too dark for 'buckers. You don't "need" Orange Drops either. The important things are the value as the tolerance to the stated value. A 5% CBB is going to be more accurate than a 20% Orange Drop you bought from George's Geetar Grotto. I don't stock anything higher than 5% tolerance.
It should be noted that anything that goes through the cap goes to ground - it doesn't add anything. I've used everything from Radio Shack Chiclets to vintage Mullard Tropical Fish in guitars and none of them made me sound like anyone else.



The only thing the voltage rating does in a guitar is change the physical size of the cap. My more recent builds have been 50V caps so they're out of the way. If he's doing the traditional "Gibson" style wiring an axial cap like a Mallory 150 (which are stock - at least in the nicer Epi's) or this 2% Electrocube would be a good choice.

View attachment 20445
Small caps work real nice.

Oh I agree on the cap size and rating. I just pointed out the 200 volt ones are a lot smaller. I guess the 50 volt ones are even smaller too, and like I said even a cheap ceramic or polyester cap will do just as well. It's the capacitance not the price that matters.

As for tolerances, that's in the ear of the beholder. I don't happen to sell stuff, however.

 

[Diamond Dave]

Folks--any reason to purchase this stuff from The Art of Tone or another smaller retailer, other than not wanting to support Amazon? Do we have a connection to TAOT people or anything?

Just curious. I try to support local shops and mom-and-pop suppliers when I can.

Thanks!

 

[speedkills66]

Hello,

My 2022 Epi Les Paul Classic has two push-pull volume pots for coil splitting, one push-pull tone for phase switching, and one regular tone pot. I want to yank all the push-pull out and just wire it with two volumes and two tones, no splitting and no phase switching.

Question is--what do I need for modern Les Paul wiring?

I am thinking:

Two 300k linear taper volume pots
Two 500k audio taper tone pots
Two orange drop caps? .022? Something else that is 0.047?

Thoughts? Thank you!

I was thinking of doing the same thing soon, so I'm thankful to be absorbing some of this info second hand...

Why do you want to remove the push-pull pots?
For me, I just dont use them and it's an opportunity to put something a little better quality (or at least as I perceive it)

 

[Raiyn]

As for tolerances, that's in the ear of the beholder. I don't happen to sell stuff, however.

I don't "sell" them as much as use them in my own projects and when modding guitars for others. I have a fairly substantial stockpile as a hedge against potential price hikes more than anything. I don't sell parts ala carte.

To my previous point, a guy could get Mallory 150's a couple years ago for $1 a pop shipped. That is until JoBobanana started putting them in his signature axes.

I've got my favorite values from a couple of well-known Japanese brands and I bought them cheap. My customers might not fully understand values and tolerances, but brand recognition admittedly is a thing.


To me the tolerance is important from a quality standard if I'm paying for / being paid for 0.0XYμF, I want it as close to that number as I can get. Sure a ±20% can be the exact same value as a ±5% but the ±5%'s are going to be a lot more consistent.

Folks--any reason to purchase this stuff from The Art of Tone or another smaller retailer, other than not wanting to support Amazon? Do we have a connection to TAOT people or anything?

TOAT sells on both eBay and Amazon. He also has his own line of 525K pots ±5% which ties into my previous statement. Buying from that line you won't get a pot under 500KΩ nor over 550KΩ. I don't buy all my pots from him, but for humbuckers, far more often than not I will.

I find his / their products to be of a consistently high quality and exactly what they claim them to be. I also find them to be reasonably priced. Not the cheapest, but they also don't leave you hanging waiting on product.

They don't directly sponsor anything here - we don't have those, nor do I get anything for saying nice things about them. They've earned my business and all opinions are my own.

 

[Diamond Dave]

@speedkills66 the push-pulls have a lot of play in them, and I don’t think the tone push-pull (the one that controls phase switching) is even working. It doesn’t have a capacitor on it. And I’ve seen a few Epi LP Classic wiring harnesses that have been removed and put up for sale on Reverb, and they don’t have a capacitor on the push-pull tone either. So I don’t know what the hell is going on.

Basically, I like it simple and I like it to work. I’m not a good enough player to worry about single-coil phase-switched tone. That’s graduate level stuff and I’m like remedial third grade.

 

[Diamond Dave]

Also, thanks @Raiyn !

 

[Raiyn]

Also, thanks @Raiyn !

No problem. If I can be of further assistance, let me know.

Test edit: 5:40 on Saturday.

 

[Diamond Dave]

Just ordered pots, caps, and wire from TAOT. More as the science project unfolds...

 

[Raiyn]

Just ordered pots, caps, and wire from TAOT. More as the science project unfolds...

For a one-stop package deal that Les Paul kit isn't too bad.
His Orange Drops are 223J's so that's good. J = 5% - which is my minimum standard.

This is just me completely geeking out / evangelizing but have you accepted 63/37 solder into your life? Good

 

[Diamond Dave]

For a one-stop package deal that Les Paul kit isn't too bad.
His Orange Drops are 223J's so that's good. J = 5% - which is my minimum standard.

This is just me completely geeking out / evangelizing but have you accepted 63/37 solder into your life? Good

I got the 525k pots but the 200 volt caps just to save a little space. And the Gavitt wire.

Not sure what solder I’ve got in the man cave tool department —I’m open to experimenting!

 

[BlueSquirrel]

@Diamond Dave If you like the way your guitar sounds and it already has a 0.22 cap, then stick to that value.
However if you feel your guitar sounds a bit shrill and you'd prefer a darker, more mellow tone (for jazz, for example), then you could try 0.33 or even 0.47.

 

[syco]

In all honesty ..... voltage don't mean "bubkiss" . Material and manufacturer plays more part in size .

400V Mallory 150 vs Orange Drop 200V .022 Caps .

 

[Raiyn]

In all honesty ..... voltage don't mean "bubkiss" . Material and manufacturer plays more part in size .

400V Mallory 150 vs Orange Drop 200V .022 Caps .

View attachment 20472

It's often the case within a brand / series that bigger voltage will equal a bigger physical size..

Edit:

You're absolutely right though, the yellow ones are a 100V and a 630V from different manufacturers. The 100V Electrocube is huge compared to the 630V Mallory .

At the same time though, the ones on the left are a 50, 100, and 400V from the same brand.

50 vs 100V

I'll admit that the gold ones aren't the same capacitance, nor are all three of the red ones, but it's still illustrative of my point. I've got different values of 50V caps that are the same size from the same manufacturer, I just don't really stock many "bigger" voltage caps to take pictures of.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Technically it's all to do with the breakdown of the dielectric, the insulating material, between the two capacitor "plates".

At some given voltage those will break down or short. The technical details are way beyond me, but in simplistic terms, I guess the better the dielectric, the smaller the cap can be for any given voltage.

Differences in the dielectric and plate size will also give tiny, nuanced, differences in frequency response, I expect, which is why some will claim PIOs are to die for and polyester aren't worth putting in a Chinese knockoff of a Vietnamese knockoff of a Squier knockoff from Thailand.