Korean Epis vs Chinese

[Charles Carter]

what is the serial# ?

G0405170130

 

[Paruwi]

G0405170130

so I guess it's not Samick

 

[Charles Carter]

View attachment 20468

so I guess it's not Samick

I knew that was coming Peter ... I've tried too. No luck!

 

[Raiyn]

There seems to be a certain grading in the marketplace with Asian guitars

That's all well and good for the marketplace, but the marketplace is driven as much (or more) by personal biases than facts. A tier Korean built with garner more interest than a good Chinese built amongst the masses.

Your best bet is to do as the old Packard slogan once said:

 

[Equalphone]

That's all well and good for the marketplace, but the marketplace is driven as much (or more) by personal biases than facts. A tier Korean built with garner more interest than a good Chinese built amongst the masses.

Your best bet is to do as the old Packard slogan once said:

Agreed. There's good and bad from all sources / locations with guitars. There can be a general direction with some factories reliably producing low quality and some reliably producing high quality. But even among those there will be some good and bad.

Unless it's a specific characteristic you're looking for i.e. 'this factory used component xyz for these years" or "this factory had this neck spec for these years", you really have to try it.

 

[soulman969]

My point being some people have the idea that Korean made Epis are superior. Bollocks they are!
Whether the early Chinese ones had some QC issues or whether it's simply a case of Sinophobia and people hating Chinese products because of their decades old reputation for pressed tin junk I don't know?

Korean Epis better ? Internet propaganda. Some are great, some less. The closer in time you get to today, the better Asian Epiphones are, country notwithstanding. Now with the new Inspired by Gibson Series, they are almost at par with the Gibson models.

This sums it up for me. Sinophobia is one factor even though China has become just as capitalist in many ways as the US and as Jean states, pure propaganda calculated to make Korean made versions appear to be better and worth more money. IMHO there will be far more variance in Korean models made under contract from several different sources than from those made by Epiphone themselves in Qingdao.

I even saw one Gold Top with a made in Korea label that was built in 2009 long after production began in China. Mine is a 2008 and when compared with a Gibson my jam buddy owns the only real differences we could attribute to the Gibson were the pickups were somewhat grittier and they had coil taps. He paid 5x what I paid for mine. So again 90% as good for a fraction of the cost comes into play.

What I get a kick out of is now that the made in US thinking that no MIC Squier could possibly be nearly as good as a good ol' US made Tele or Strat has been debunked sellers are working that angle with MIK vs MIC or MII even when the Indonesian builds are done by the former Korean companies the seller is touting as so much better than Indonesian ones. We do need to just buy guitars not countries of origin. That's all BS IMHO.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

This sums it up for me. Sinophobia is one factor even though China has become just as capitalist in many ways as the US and as Jean states, pure propaganda calculated to make Korean made versions appear to be better and worth more money. IMHO there will be far more variance in Korean models made under contract from several different sources than from those made by Epiphone themselves in Qingdao.

I even saw one Gold Top with a made in Korea label that was built in 2009 long after production began in China. Mine is a 2008 and when compared with a Gibson my jam buddy owns the only real differences we could attribute to the Gibson were the pickups were somewhat grittier and they had coil taps. He paid 5x what I paid for mine. So again 90% as good for a fraction of the cost comes into play.

What I get a kick out of is now that the made in US thinking that no MIC Squier could possibly be nearly as good as a good ol' US made Tele or Strat has been debunked sellers are working that angle with MIK vs MIC or MII even when the Indonesian builds are done by the former Korean companies the seller is touting as so much better than Indonesian ones. We do need to just buy guitars not countries of origin. That's all BS IMHO.

Not to get too political, and also not to be too nationalistic (i'll try). I think part of the MIK thing is also because people were hoping that Korea would replicate the success that Japan had. But it's a different economy, different market and completely different mindset. While I'm sure the Koreans take their craft seriously too, they don't take it as seriously as we do here. Like craftsman here... sometimes when I talk to them... the first thing that comes to mind is....



Cause when you think of craftsman... hell even repairmen... here, it's not just the detail and the skill... they hold onto all the history and snake oil and turn that WAYYY past 11, to the point where it's engrained as part of the core building process. One example would be something silly like whether the way a ground wire is attached would affect tone etc...

But!!! that's the key! It's because the makers here are soooo fixated with recreating something that's accurate down to the last atom (esp. since they had expended so much time analyzing this stuff in the 70s during the replica/copy era), that now even when you strip away a lot of the finer details for less expensive lines, the quality, detail and practices are still there. Contrast this with the M.O. of manufacturers in other regions around Asia are different - they were setup from the very beginning to cut costs and its only as technology improved, and the parties contracting these factories seeing the demand for quality, that they were able to reallocate some of the expenses towards better QC/materials.

 

[soulman969]

Few can compare to Japanese craftsmanship when that becomes the most important focus and it is more often than not. IMHO it's a cultural thing based on honor and integrity.

I had a lot of experience with Japanese produced ophthalmic instruments back in the 70s. They weren't quite able to produce the mechanical precision of German and Swiss made products but their optics may have actually been superior.

In many ways Japanese production has forced many to rethink their approach to what they build and offer to the marketplace . But here the lure of price and promotion of style distracts many from learning how to better value what they buy. The focus isn't the same.

US consumerism is really our downfall. We've been conditioned to fall for hucksters since day one which is why con men openly con the public and get away with it. To some it's actually as entertaining as a Super Bowl commercial. IMHO we're a nation of very foolish buyers.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

Few can compare to Japanese craftsmanship when that becomes the most important focus and it is more often than not. IMHO it's a cultural thing based on honor and integrity.

I had a lot of experience with Japanese produced ophthalmic instruments back in the 70s. They weren't quite able to produce the mechanical precision of German and Swiss made products but their optics may have actually been superior.

In many ways Japanese production has forced many to rethink their approach to what they build and offer to the marketplace . But here the lure of price and promotion of style distracts many from learning how to better value what they buy. The focus isn't the same.

US consumerism is really our downfall. We've been conditioned to fall for hucksters since day one which is why con men openly con the public and get away with it. To some it's actually as entertaining as a Super Bowl commercial. IMHO we're a nation of very foolish buyers.

This was definitely the case for electronics too. I remember growing up when we brought stuff back from trips to visit our grandparents, it started out as "this is a cheaper alternative" (esp. sanyo radios, cassette players) then later towards the 90s, it turned into "this is the cooler/futuristic option" (Laserdiscs, Minidiscs etc) like few others at school even heard about that stuff!! (The toys and games were great too).

But then somewhere in the last 20 years, something changed. I think because we were able to catch up (and also in some ways find ways to surpass) the original product - whether that be TVs, guitars, consumer electronics etc... we ended up taking the path of innovation rather than price-efficiency.

A lot of the times general public doesn't seem to care - if something can do 80% of the job but cost 50% or less of the price, most people would be happy with it. Where as I think what we focus on here is to try to get it to do 100% (or improving the design) - but that's expensive and frankly is harder to sell. One thing that has really turned me off with a lot of MIC products though, is that they're priced low, but they're treated as consumables. Even stuff like larger items like kitchen appliances and what not - that stuff always breaks right after the warranty period.

That cheap sanyo radio - it's still usable and somewhere in my storage in BC (but part of that is also because the temperate weather there does almost nothing to electronics - my guitars there also have no tarnish whatsoever).

 

[Charles Carter]

...we ended up taking the path of innovation ...

But you guys make Jeeps. The Japanese make Toyota LandCruisers.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

But you guys make Jeeps. The Japanese make Toyota LandCruisers.

(The other way round for me).
Same with cars too!! Parents drove Toyota and Mazdas back in the day cause they were the affordable option. Now I'm showing them studies to make sure they buy Toyota/Lexus since they're rated as very reliable (as opposed to say Mercedes - dad likes those)

 

[soulman969]

Even stuff like larger items like kitchen appliances and what not - that stuff always breaks right after the warranty period.

Just experienced this as well. My daughters 4 year old dishwasher just bit the dust. The motherboard is shot. The what??? A dishwasher now needs a motherboard with a life span of 4 years!!!!

What ever happened to the Maytag repairman? The loneliest guy in town.

 

[soulman969]

(The other way round for me).
Same with cars too!! Parents drove Toyota and Mazdas back in the day cause they were the affordable option. Now I'm showing them studies to make sure they buy Toyota/Lexus since they're rated as very reliable (as opposed to say Mercedes - dad likes those)

Amen. For over 10 years I drove Saabs. For me they were great cars and fun to drive but not so much fun to own once the warranty was up.

Luckily I found an old school Saab mechanic who was actually into fixing what was broken not simply replacing one component with another. He'd even scour salvage yards for quality parts to keep costs down and his shop did a huge amount of business. Great guy too.

Now I drive a 2007 Toyota and while it's nowhere near as comfortable and as much fun to drive it's one hell of a lot cheaper to own. It was my daughters car before I bought it and she maintained it very well. It has 144k on it now and other than basic maintenance and tires I haven't had to spend one thin dime of any major repairs. It has a 1.8L engine.

A brake job is in the near future but at 144k that's probably to be expected along with a few other minor fixes. Based on this experience if I ever need to replace it my guess is it will be with another Toyota.

 

[BGood]

Amen. For over 10 years I drove Saabs. For me they were great cars and fun to drive but not so much fun to own once the warranty was up.

Luckily I found an old school Saab mechanic who was actually into fixing what was broken not simply replacing one component with another. He'd even scour salvage yards for quality parts to keep costs down and his shop did a huge amount of business. Great guy too.

Now I drive a 2007 Toyota and while it's nowhere near as comfortable and as much fun to drive it's one hell of a lot cheaper to own. It was my daughters car before I bought it and she maintained it very well. It has 144k on it now and other than basic maintenance and tires I haven't had to spend one thin dime of any major repairs. It has a 1.8L engine.

A brake job is in the near future but at 144k that's probably to be expected along with a few other minor fixes. Based on this experience if I ever need to replace it my guess is it will be with another Toyota.

I've had:
1989 Toyota LE 4X4 cargo van (150,000km)
1991 Previa LE (375,000km) and a second LE (450,000km)
2004 Sienna LE (420,000km)
Now a 2013 Sienna SE ( ±250,000km)

 

[Equalphone]

Amen. For over 10 years I drove Saabs. For me they were great cars and fun to drive but not so much fun to own once the warranty was up.

Luckily I found an old school Saab mechanic who was actually into fixing what was broken not simply replacing one component with another. He'd even scour salvage yards for quality parts to keep costs down and his shop did a huge amount of business. Great guy too.

Now I drive a 2007 Toyota and while it's nowhere near as comfortable and as much fun to drive it's one hell of a lot cheaper to own. It was my daughters car before I bought it and she maintained it very well. It has 144k on it now and other than basic maintenance and tires I haven't had to spend one thin dime of any major repairs. It has a 1.8L engine.

A brake job is in the near future but at 144k that's probably to be expected along with a few other minor fixes. Based on this experience if I ever need to replace it my guess is it will be with another Toyota.

As a long term Saab driver, it's kind of a mixed bag. Wonderful cars. Fantastic warranty and "customer goodwill" coverage. But higher maint for sure. Same for most European cars in terms of maint. Some are downright awful. Saab engineers loved to over-engineer. Sometimes that was better. Sometimes not. But they owned every problem that came up without argument.

Japanese cars are more reliable as a general rule. Long cultural traditions combined with Dr. Deming's "quality first" long-term strategies made their car industry a success post-50's. American manufacturers refused Deming's work. The results speak for themselves.

But there are some major flaws in some Japanese cars too. Somewhere in-between the Asian tradition of saving-face and the American corporate tradition of deny-everything-for-profit, they ended up with some major mistakes in the last few decades. But overall they are still generally good.

 

[Raiyn]

Just experienced this as well. My daughters 4 year old dishwasher just bit the dust. The motherboard is shot. The what??? A dishwasher now needs a motherboard with a life span of 4 years!!!!

That's because it had 47 modes, a touch display, and WiFi.

I bought a rice cooker yesterday (had some free money from Mr. Jeff) and instead of buying the one with the digital display I bought the $20 version shown here:


No fancy circuitry, just a simple design exploiting basic properties.

Yes, it seems a bit bourgeois, but it does make better rice than the saucepan on the stovetop. Not to mention being virtually idiot proof. Free money well spent.

 

[soulman969]

That's because it had 47 modes, a touch display, and WiFi.

I bought a rice cooker yesterday (had some free money from Mr. Jeff) and instead of buying the one with the digital display I bought the $20 version shown here:


No fancy circuitry, just a simple design exploiting basic properties.

Yes, it seems a bit bourgeois, but it does make better rice than the saucepan on the stovetop. Not to mention being virtually idiot proof. Free money well spent.

Ah, I make rice quite often. I'll have to check that one out. Thanks for the tip. And as far as dishwashers go I have the most dependable brand on the market. I even offered to let my daughter borrow them.....LOL.

 

[soulman969]

As a long term Saab driver, it's kind of a mixed bag. Wonderful cars. Fantastic warranty and "customer goodwill" coverage. But higher maint for sure. Same for most European cars in terms of maint. Some are downright awful. Saab engineers loved to over-engineer. Sometimes that was better. Sometimes not. But they owned every problem that came up without argument.

Absolutely the two best cars I ever owned. The first was a 9000 I bought from my partner when family matters prompted him to buy a van. The second was a 2002 95 turbo I drove 'til out of warranty at 50k. The lease terms were incredible and all scheduled maintenance was done by the dealership at N/C and a loaner car provided as well. I really have nothing bad to say about one other than that they're an acquired taste.

 

[EpiLeo]

In my personal experience the Korean made Epiphone's seemed to be slightly more solid feeling Guitar's & the woods didn't seem so almost like prematurely cut i seen alot of Chinese Epiphone's were the woods used look like they were barely given a chance to fully grow as a tree or whatever before being cut-down & used to make the Guitar's & that's why i think you see so many Epiphone(& some other Brand's) arrive with Broken Headstock's or Badly Cracked in the Neck's or Other Places!! Because the Woods are weak & softer from being prematurely Cut-Down & like on some of the older very-late 1990's to very-early 2000's Epiphone's from Korea had way more beautiful Grain & Lines in the Woods used on like the Body's Front & Tops!! & the Body's & Neck's Backsides!! & the Burst Paintjob's were alot more eye catching & pretty looking on some of the Korean Made Epiphone's & the Burst's were a tad bit more unique on each one like if you grabbed like 5 Korean Epiphone Cherry-Burst LP's & standed them up side by side & looked at each on up closely each one's Paintjob & Burst was slightly or even sometimes drastically different from one-another & it seems like alot of the Chinese Made Epiphone's look basically exactly alike & each one is almost identical to the last!! Where on the Korean Made Epiphone's some Had alot more Red in the Burst's or less Red & more Orangey in the Burst or like maybe you'd see like as some call them a ClownBurst or two!! & also this is personal preference but i liked the Neck Shapes/Profile/Thickness of the Korean Made Epiphone's they were usually a tad slimmer & more fast & comfortable feeling for my hands atleast!! & the main thing i miss from the Korean Made day's of Epiphone Guitar's is all the Factory 2ND.'s you would see back in the day & could really end-up getting a good or even great deal on because they were Stamped Factory "2ND." On the back's of the Headstock's!!! & usually the Flaw or Issue that got whatever Guitar Stamped a Factory 2ND. were super small & insignificant & usually purely cosmetic flaws like i remember my Uncle getting a great fantastic deal on a Cherry-Burst Epiphone LP that was! Stamped a Factory "2ND." On the Back! of it's Headstock!! JUST BECAUSE it Had a permanent Thumbprint on the lower back bottom of the Guitar's Body that looked like someone in the Factory accidentally touched the back of the Guitar Body with their Thumb while one of the final coats of paint were still drying up & they just ended up smoothing it on over with the final Clearcoat Finish so that the thumbprint wouldn't be like feelable to the touch!! But!! Yeah because of that one micro cosmetic flaw that Guitar! was Stamped a Factory 2ND. therefore allowing my Uncle to get a fantastic deal on it compared to what the particular Guitar Sold for New without being Stamped Factory 2ND. & You just DON'T see that anymore the whole Factory 2ND. Thing!!!!... Nowadays!! They! probably! just! Do!! What!! Gibson! Does!! & Basically! Completely!! Destroy!! & Trash!! ANY!! Guitar!/Instruments! or! anything!! that has the ever so slightest! Flaw!! or! two!! on!! it!!!.... Which! kinda really! pisses-me-off!!! especially! after! seeing! a couple of those! Gibson-Factory! Videos!! of them! Purposely! Destroying!! Guitar's! & Instruments! that could be! perfectly! Fixable! into! a fairly! decent! & nicely! playing!! Guitar!!/Instrument!! They might not be able to sell it for full Price BUT atleast they'll make SOMETHING & some Money off of it!! instead of just destroying it by beating it to death with hammers or running it over with a steamroller or whatever idiotic methods Gibson uses to destroy perfectly fixable instruments!!! & Gibson wonders why they're broke for the most part!! & filing for Bankruptcy! & stuff like that!! i know there's plenty of other reasons why! But destroying perfectly fixable instruments!! just!! because!! Certainly!! isn't!! Helping!! their!! bottom-line!! any!!! at-all!!!..... Anyways!!! Everything i said in this rambling comment is just simply one person's opinion that being my own!!.... So! please!! don't!! anyone!! take!! any!! offense!! to anything!! i said!!.....
PEACE!!

 

[Raiyn]

Ah, I make rice quite often. I'll have to check that one out. Thanks for the tip.

Best $20 spent this year.

In my personal experience the Korean made Epiphone's seemed to be slightly more solid feeling Guitar's & the woods didn't seem so almost like prematurely cut i seen alot of Chinese Epiphone's were the woods used look like they were barely given a chance to fully grow as a tree or whatever before being cut-down & used to make the Guitar's & that's why i think you see so many Epiphone(& some other Brand's) arrive with Broken Headstock's or Badly Cracked in the Neck's or Other Places!! Because the Woods are weak & softer from being prematurely Cut-Down & like on some of the older very-late 1990's to very-early 2000's Epiphone's from Korea had way more beautiful Grain & Lines in the Woods used on like the Body's Front & Tops!! & the Body's & Neck's Backsides!! & the Burst Paintjob's were alot more eye catching & pretty looking on some of the Korean Made Epiphone's & the Burst's were a tad bit more unique on each one like if you grabbed like 5 Korean Epiphone Cherry-Burst LP's & standed them up side by side & looked at each on up closely each one's Paintjob & Burst was slightly or even sometimes drastically different from one-another & it seems like alot of the Chinese Made Epiphone's look basically exactly alike & each one is almost identical to the last!! Where on the Korean Made Epiphone's some Had alot more Red in the Burst's or less Red & more Orangey in the Burst or like maybe you'd see like as some call them a ClownBurst or two!! & also this is personal preference but i liked the Neck Shapes/Profile/Thickness of the Korean Made Epiphone's they were usually a tad slimmer & more fast & comfortable feeling for my hands atleast!! & the main thing i miss from the Korean Made day's of Epiphone Guitar's is all the Factory 2ND.'s you would see back in the day & could really end-up getting a good or even great deal on because they were Stamped Factory "2ND." On the back's of the Headstock's!!! & usually the Flaw or Issue that got whatever Guitar Stamped a Factory 2ND. were super small & insignificant & usually purely cosmetic flaws like i remember my Uncle getting a great fantastic deal on a Cherry-Burst Epiphone LP that was! Stamped a Factory "2ND." On the Back! of it's Headstock!! JUST BECAUSE it Had a permanent Thumbprint on the lower back bottom of the Guitar's Body that looked like someone in the Factory accidentally touched the back of the Guitar Body with their Thumb while one of the final coats of paint were still drying up & they just ended up smoothing it on over with the final Clearcoat Finish so that the thumbprint wouldn't be like feelable to the touch!! But!! Yeah because of that one micro cosmetic flaw that Guitar! was Stamped a Factory 2ND. therefore allowing my Uncle to get a fantastic deal on it compared to what the particular Guitar Sold for New without being Stamped Factory 2ND. & You just DON'T see that anymore the whole Factory 2ND. Thing!!!!... Nowadays!! They! probably! just! Do!! What!! Gibson! Does!! & Basically! Completely!! Destroy!! & Trash!! ANY!! Guitar!/Instruments! or! anything!! that has the ever so slightest! Flaw!! or! two!! on!! it!!!.... Which! kinda really! pisses-me-off!!! especially! after! seeing! a couple of those! Gibson-Factory! Videos!! of them! Purposely! Destroying!! Guitar's! & Instruments! that could be! perfectly! Fixable! into! a fairly! decent! & nicely! playing!! Guitar!!/Instrument!! They might not be able to sell it for full Price BUT atleast they'll make SOMETHING & some Money off of it!! instead of just destroying it by beating it to death with hammers or running it over with a steamroller or whatever idiotic methods Gibson uses to destroy perfectly fixable instruments!!! & Gibson wonders why they're broke for the most part!! & filing for Bankruptcy! & stuff like that!! i know there's plenty of other reasons why! But destroying perfectly fixable instruments!! just!! because!! Certainly!! isn't!! Helping!! their!! bottom-line!! any!!! at-all!!!..... Anyways!!! Everything i said in this rambling comment is just simply one person's opinion that being my own!!.... So! please!! don't!! anyone!! take!! any!! offense!! to anything!! i said!!.....
PEACE!!

Multiple!! exclamation!! points!! after!! every!! word!!! in!! a!!! monolithic!!! wall!! of!! text!! filled!! with!!! bogus!!! information!!

Is it 2020, and did I wander over to Twitter again?

edit: Too long for Twitter...