Korean Epis vs Chinese

[soulman969]

In my personal experience the Korean made Epiphone's seemed to be slightly more solid feeling Guitar's & the woods didn't seem so almost like prematurely cut i seen alot of Chinese Epiphone's were the woods used look like they were barely given a chance to fully grow as a tree or whatever before being cut-down & used to make the Guitar's & that's why i think you see so many Epiphone(& some other Brand's) arrive with Broken Headstock's or Badly Cracked in the Neck's or Other Places!! Because the Woods are weak & softer from being prematurely Cut-Down & like on some of the older very-late 1990's to very-early 2000's Epiphone's from Korea had way more beautiful Grain & Lines in the Woods used on like the Body's Front & Tops!! & the Body's & Neck's Backsides!! & the Burst Paintjob's were alot more eye catching & pretty looking on some of the Korean Made Epiphone's & the Burst's were a tad bit more unique on each one like if you grabbed like 5 Korean Epiphone Cherry-Burst LP's & standed them up side by side & looked at each on up closely each one's Paintjob & Burst was slightly or even sometimes drastically different from one-another & it seems like alot of the Chinese Made Epiphone's look basically exactly alike & each one is almost identical to the last!! Where on the Korean Made Epiphone's some Had alot more Red in the Burst's or less Red & more Orangey in the Burst or like maybe you'd see like as some call them a ClownBurst or two!! & also this is personal preference but i liked the Neck Shapes/Profile/Thickness of the Korean Made Epiphone's they were usually a tad slimmer & more fast & comfortable feeling for my hands atleast!! & the main thing i miss from the Korean Made day's of Epiphone Guitar's is all the Factory 2ND.'s you would see back in the day & could really end-up getting a good or even great deal on because they were Stamped Factory "2ND." On the back's of the Headstock's!!! & usually the Flaw or Issue that got whatever Guitar Stamped a Factory 2ND. were super small & insignificant & usually purely cosmetic flaws like i remember my Uncle getting a great fantastic deal on a Cherry-Burst Epiphone LP that was! Stamped a Factory "2ND." On the Back! of it's Headstock!! JUST BECAUSE it Had a permanent Thumbprint on the lower back bottom of the Guitar's Body that looked like someone in the Factory accidentally touched the back of the Guitar Body with their Thumb while one of the final coats of paint were still drying up & they just ended up smoothing it on over with the final Clearcoat Finish so that the thumbprint wouldn't be like feelable to the touch!! But!! Yeah because of that one micro cosmetic flaw that Guitar! was Stamped a Factory 2ND. therefore allowing my Uncle to get a fantastic deal on it compared to what the particular Guitar Sold for New without being Stamped Factory 2ND. & You just DON'T see that anymore the whole Factory 2ND. Thing!!!!... Nowadays!! They! probably! just! Do!! What!! Gibson! Does!! & Basically! Completely!! Destroy!! & Trash!! ANY!! Guitar!/Instruments! or! anything!! that has the ever so slightest! Flaw!! or! two!! on!! it!!!.... Which! kinda really! pisses-me-off!!! especially! after! seeing! a couple of those! Gibson-Factory! Videos!! of them! Purposely! Destroying!! Guitar's! & Instruments! that could be! perfectly! Fixable! into! a fairly! decent! & nicely! playing!! Guitar!!/Instrument!! They might not be able to sell it for full Price BUT atleast they'll make SOMETHING & some Money off of it!! instead of just destroying it by beating it to death with hammers or running it over with a steamroller or whatever idiotic methods Gibson uses to destroy perfectly fixable instruments!!! & Gibson wonders why they're broke for the most part!! & filing for Bankruptcy! & stuff like that!! i know there's plenty of other reasons why! But destroying perfectly fixable instruments!! just!! because!! Certainly!! isn't!! Helping!! their!! bottom-line!! any!!! at-all!!!..... Anyways!!! Everything i said in this rambling comment is just simply one person's opinion that being my own!!.... So! please!! don't!! anyone!! take!! any!! offense!! to anything!! i said!!.....
PEACE!!

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[BGood]

In my personal experience the Korean made Epiphone's seemed to be slightly more solid feeling Guitar's & the woods didn't seem so almost like prematurely cut i seen alot of Chinese Epiphone's were the woods used look like they were barely given a chance to fully grow as a tree or whatever before being cut-down & used to make the Guitar's & that's why i think you see so many Epiphone(& some other Brand's) arrive with Broken Headstock's or Badly Cracked in the Neck's or Other Places!! Because the Woods are weak & softer from being prematurely Cut-Down & like on some of the older very-late 1990's to very-early 2000's Epiphone's from Korea had way more beautiful Grain & Lines in the Woods used on like the Body's Front & Tops!! & the Body's & Neck's Backsides!! & the Burst Paintjob's were alot more eye catching & pretty looking on some of the Korean Made Epiphone's & the Burst's were a tad bit more unique on each one like if you grabbed like 5 Korean Epiphone Cherry-Burst LP's & standed them up side by side & looked at each on up closely each one's Paintjob & Burst was slightly or even sometimes drastically different from one-another & it seems like alot of the Chinese Made Epiphone's look basically exactly alike & each one is almost identical to the last!! Where on the Korean Made Epiphone's some Had alot more Red in the Burst's or less Red & more Orangey in the Burst or like maybe you'd see like as some call them a ClownBurst or two!! & also this is personal preference but i liked the Neck Shapes/Profile/Thickness of the Korean Made Epiphone's they were usually a tad slimmer & more fast & comfortable feeling for my hands atleast!! & the main thing i miss from the Korean Made day's of Epiphone Guitar's is all the Factory 2ND.'s you would see back in the day & could really end-up getting a good or even great deal on because they were Stamped Factory "2ND." On the back's of the Headstock's!!! & usually the Flaw or Issue that got whatever Guitar Stamped a Factory 2ND. were super small & insignificant & usually purely cosmetic flaws like i remember my Uncle getting a great fantastic deal on a Cherry-Burst Epiphone LP that was! Stamped a Factory "2ND." On the Back! of it's Headstock!! JUST BECAUSE it Had a permanent Thumbprint on the lower back bottom of the Guitar's Body that looked like someone in the Factory accidentally touched the back of the Guitar Body with their Thumb while one of the final coats of paint were still drying up & they just ended up smoothing it on over with the final Clearcoat Finish so that the thumbprint wouldn't be like feelable to the touch!! But!! Yeah because of that one micro cosmetic flaw that Guitar! was Stamped a Factory 2ND. therefore allowing my Uncle to get a fantastic deal on it compared to what the particular Guitar Sold for New without being Stamped Factory 2ND. & You just DON'T see that anymore the whole Factory 2ND. Thing!!!!... Nowadays!! They! probably! just! Do!! What!! Gibson! Does!! & Basically! Completely!! Destroy!! & Trash!! ANY!! Guitar!/Instruments! or! anything!! that has the ever so slightest! Flaw!! or! two!! on!! it!!!.... Which! kinda really! pisses-me-off!!! especially! after! seeing! a couple of those! Gibson-Factory! Videos!! of them! Purposely! Destroying!! Guitar's! & Instruments! that could be! perfectly! Fixable! into! a fairly! decent! & nicely! playing!! Guitar!!/Instrument!! They might not be able to sell it for full Price BUT atleast they'll make SOMETHING & some Money off of it!! instead of just destroying it by beating it to death with hammers or running it over with a steamroller or whatever idiotic methods Gibson uses to destroy perfectly fixable instruments!!! & Gibson wonders why they're broke for the most part!! & filing for Bankruptcy! & stuff like that!! i know there's plenty of other reasons why! But destroying perfectly fixable instruments!! just!! because!! Certainly!! isn't!! Helping!! their!! bottom-line!! any!!! at-all!!!..... Anyways!!! Everything i said in this rambling comment is just simply one person's opinion that being my own!!.... So! please!! don't!! anyone!! take!! any!! offense!! to anything!! i said!!.....
PEACE!!

I read the first few lines and the approach looked very "scientifically informed". I stopped there ...

 

[Noodling Guitars]

Where on the Korean Made Epiphone's some Had alot more Red in the Burst's or less Red & more Orangey in the Burst or like maybe you'd see like as some call them a ClownBurst or two!! & also this is personal preference but i liked the Neck Shapes/Profile/Thickness of the Korean Made Epiphone's they were usually a tad slimmer & more fast & comfortable feeling for my hands atleast!! & the main thing i miss from the Korean Made day's of Epiphone Guitar's is all the Factory 2ND.'s you would see back in the day & could really end-up getting a good or even great deal on because they were Stamped Factory "2ND." On the back's of the Headstock's!!! & usually the Flaw or Issue that got whatever Guitar Stamped a Factory 2ND. were super small & insignificant & usually purely cosmetic flaws like i remember my Uncle getting a great fantastic deal on a Cherry-Burst Epiphone LP that was! Stamped a Factory "2ND." On the Back! of it's Headstock!! JUST BECAUSE it Had a permanent Thumbprint on the lower back bottom of the Guitar's Body that looked like someone in the Factory accidentally touched the back of the Guitar Body with their Thumb while one of the final coats of paint were still drying up & they just ended up smoothing it on over with the final Clearcoat Finish so that the thumbprint wouldn't be like feelable to the touch!! But!! Yeah because of that one micro cosmetic flaw that Guitar! was Stamped a Factory 2ND. therefore allowing my Uncle to get a fantastic deal on it compared to what the particular Guitar Sold for New without being Stamped Factory 2ND. & You just DON'T see that anymore the whole Factory 2ND. Thing!!!!... Nowadays!! They! probably! just! Do!! What!! Gibson! Does!! & Basically! Completely!! Destroy!! & Trash!! ANY!! Guitar!/Instruments! or! anything!! that has the ever so slightest! Flaw!! or! two!! on!! it!!!.... Which! kinda really! pisses-me-off!!! especially! after! seeing! a couple of those! Gibson-Factory! Videos!! of them! Purposely! Destroying!! Guitar's! & Instruments! that could be! perfectly! Fixable! into! a fairly! decent! & nicely! playing!! Guitar!!/Instrument!! They might not be able to sell it for full Price BUT atleast they'll make SOMETHING & some Money off of it!! instead of just destroying it by beating it to death with hammers or running it over with a steamroller or whatever idiotic methods Gibson uses to destroy perfectly fixable instruments!!! & Gibson wonders why they're broke for the most part!! & filing for Bankruptcy! & stuff like that!! i know there's plenty of other reasons why! But destroying perfectly fixable instruments!! just!! because!! Certainly!! isn't!! Helping!! their!! bottom-line!! any!!! at-all!!!..... Anyways!!! Everything i said in this rambling comment is just simply one person's opinion that being my own!!.... So! please!! don't!! anyone!! take!! any!! offense!! to anything!! i said!!.....
PEACE!!

I don't agree with any of the wood aspects - but you are entitled to your beliefs. However, one point I do want to raise is the factory 2nd point - I think you have a valid point but I think part of that is also on how the market and consumerism has changed in the last 20 or so years. I think the practice has evolved to a point where bigbox stores like GC, Sweetwater etc will no longer return faulty products to the manufacturer, but would just offload those as "B-stock". So while deals that your uncle got could possibly still be had, the problem is, once you get into the 2nd hand market, people won't know whether it's a 2nd or not. That being said, I think the rationale would be if it's just a minor cosmetic flaw, the first purchaser was already put on notice with the "B-stock" description. For the 2nd hand purchaser, maybe it's not a big deal because there will be other scratches/dings from being used.

Now... the Gibson destroying guitars thing - I think that was part sensationalism, but I think they know that pissed people off a lot. However, if you've ever talked to small builders and/or custom luthiers (even larger ones like John Suhr or Anderson), they will tell you that they destroy a lot of product - it's just part of the QC process. There are cases where things can be salvageable and cases where they cannot. Gibson probably just wanted to make a point with that video that unsalvageable parts will be destroyed instead of being fixed in ways that compromises the product. However, keep in mind that's only part of the story. Most of the ones that have minor issues do go back to the mod shop or demo shop. So!! Gibson!! still!! does !!! the!! stamping!!! thing!!!!

 

[BGood]

So while deals that your uncle got could possibly still be had, the problem is, once you get into the 2nd hand market, people won't know whether it's a 2nd or not. That being said, I think the rationale would be if it's just a minor cosmetic flaw, the first purchaser was already put on notice with the "B-stock" description. For the 2nd hand purchaser, maybe it's not a big deal because there will be other scratches/dings from being used.

A 2ND will be identified as such or as USED with a punch over the erased serial. Sometimes a new serial is added. Those are refurbished and often you just can't find what the blemish was.



That said. A 20 or 30 year old Epiphone can have suffered in the hands of people not caring for them. That can make a guitar look like it was badly built. I say a good husk can always be made to look, play and sound like the best of them.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

A 2ND will be identified as such or as USED with a punch over the erased serial. Sometimes a new serial is added. Those are refurbished and often you just can't find what the blemish was.

So its basically the same as the demo shop or mod shop thing - which I presume makes no economic sense for Epiphone these days.

 

[soulman969]

I don't agree with any of the wood aspects - but you are entitled to your beliefs. However, one point I do want to raise is the factory 2nd point - I think you have a valid point but I think part of that is also on how the market and consumerism has changed in the last 20 or so years. I think the practice has evolved to a point where bigbox stores like GC, Sweetwater etc will no longer return faulty products to the manufacturer, but would just offload those as "B-stock". So while deals that your uncle got could possibly still be had, the problem is, once you get into the 2nd hand market, people won't know whether it's a 2nd or not. That being said, I think the rationale would be if it's just a minor cosmetic flaw, the first purchaser was already put on notice with the "B-stock" description. For the 2nd hand purchaser, maybe it's not a big deal because there will be other scratches/dings from being used.

Some dealers do sell what they call "Blems" that have cosmetic flaws at an additional discount and those flaws are disclosed to the prospective buyers. Instruments needing more work may be sold to companies who repair or rebuild them and resell them to dealers who are not licensed by Fender or Gibson. The original serial number is covered over and a new serial number assigned. These are repaired factory seconds.

Of late G&L has been selling it's own "Blems" through it's online store. I bought one a few months ago at a 40% discount from MAP. You'd need to look very closely to find the finish flaw. In all other ways the guitar was no different than a brand new model and I was more than happy to benefit from the savings due to a flaw that doesn't impact it's playability nor will it ever impact it's future resale value. It's worth more than I paid.

I'm in full agreement with all that you've posted including the issues with the wood being used. If the wood isn't properly cured it will show up very quickly as instability in the neck and other potential problems I have never experienced in even one MIC guitar I've bought regardless of the brand or facility in which it was built. I'd call that a myth at best.

 

[soulman969]

A 2ND will be identified as such or as USED with a punch over the erased serial. Sometimes a new serial is added. Those are refurbished and often you just can't find what the blemish was.

View attachment 20498

That said. A 20 or 30 year old Epiphone can have suffered in the hands of people not caring for them. That can make a guitar look like it was badly built. I say a good husk can always be made to look, play and sound like the best of them.

Yup, just a I posted as well. Thanks for the example Jean.

 

[Equalphone]

Actually, there's a company in the business that buys the returned or lightly defective guitars direct from the factories and resells them through local dealers. Last I checked, they were still doing business with both Epi and Fender. They are the ones that stamped "USED" and over-labelled the serial numbers as a condition of sale - they are not allowed to sell them as new or with factory (warranty) serial numbers. I'll rack my brain for the name and see if I can find the name/link.

In terms of buying? At this point, you have to think hard about whether the difference between a 20 year old guitar that had some defect that was repaired to the point of "people might mistake this for new so we over-label it" and one that's possibly be rode hard and put away wet. I think it's just buying a used guitar now.

I've ended up with two of these guitars, a Fender and an Epi, and I can't find any defects that were from the factory. The Fender neck pocket was a little deep and needed shimming, but even Leo did that in the factory. Don't pass on one if you find it, check it out.

 

[Equalphone]

Absolutely the two best cars I ever owned. The first was a 9000 I bought from my partner when family matters prompted him to buy a van. The second was a 2002 95 turbo I drove 'til out of warranty at 50k. The lease terms were incredible and all scheduled maintenance was done by the dealership at N/C and a loaner car provided as well. I really have nothing bad to say about one other than that they're an acquired taste.

Short story of many: I had my Saab convertible in for service back in the day. A couple little things needed tweaking so I took it in. Even though I'm a DIY guy, that 50K bumper to bumper warranty meant everything was covered down to wipers. One of the things I bought it in for was a door creak. Convertibles always have those issues but the Service Manager told me "we can probably make it better; bring it in". So I did.

When I got there to pickup my car at the end of the day the service manager was personally checking the creak. After some testing he said "It's better, but I think we can make it even better. Bring it back next week when our convertible guru is back from vacation. I'll have him work on it".

I've never had a dealer suggest bringing a car back for more warranty service. They get half rate for that in the first place. On a "comeback" they don't even get paid for it by the factory. And sure enough, the guru improved it in the second round.

Just one instance. They knew customer service (Unfortunately they didn't know sales/marketing; and they fell in with evil GM; so they're gone).

 

[Uwannadon]

My MIK 2001 Epi classic Lp has more sustain more bite and sounds better than any other Lp I've owned. It has mods of course like all my epis, JB-4 bridge Jazz neck, Gibson pots switch and input, herringbone nut, shielded with orange drops,tone pros bar and tail, Gibby deluxe tuners. I've had just about every MIC Lp there is. 59, 60, Ace Budokan, and Gibby's to boot including a 2006 classic 60, and my fave Gibby the 2013 Trad 9.8 lbs.
I'm 55 and have played LPs since I was 13 and my Unsung Epi hands down has the best tone and sustain of any Lp I've ever owned.

 

[soulman969]

I'll rack my brain for the name and see if I can find the name/link.

Same here. They're based out of either Kentucky or Tennessee as I recall.

 

[soulman969]

Short story of many: I had my Saab convertible in for service back in the day. A couple little things needed tweaking so I took it in. Even though I'm a DIY guy, that 50K bumper to bumper warranty meant everything was covered down to wipers. One of the things I bought it in for was a door creak. Convertibles always have those issues but the Service Manager told me "we can probably make it better; bring it in". So I did.

When I got there to pickup my car at the end of the day the service manager was personally checking the creak. After some testing he said "It's better, but I think we can make it even better. Bring it back next week when our convertible guru is back from vacation. I'll have him work on it".

I've never had a dealer suggest bringing a car back for more warranty service. They get half rate for that in the first place. On a "comeback" they don't even get paid for it by the factory. And sure enough, the guru improved it in the second round.

Just one instance. They knew customer service (Unfortunately they didn't know sales/marketing; and they fell in with evil GM; so they're gone).

Yup the were a proud brand at one time and them came the GM deal that should never have happened. Now they're gone except you can buy used ones very inexpensively.

 

[Kostas Kritsilas]

Is the company name MIRC? I don't recall for sure (could possibly be Musical) what the M stands for but the rest is Instrument Recycling Company.

 

[BGood]

Is the company name MIRC? I don't recall for sure (could possibly be Musical) what the M stands for but the rest is Instrument Recycling Company.

Yeah that's it, MIRC for Musical Instrument Reclamation Corporation.

https://reverb.com/news/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-refurbished-guitars-from-mirc

 

[soulman969]

Yeah that's it, MIRC for Musical Instrument Reclamation Corporation.

https://reverb.com/news/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-refurbished-guitars-from-mirc

That's it. Thanks Jean.

 

[Equalphone]

Is the company name MIRC? I don't recall for sure (could possibly be Musical) what the M stands for but the rest is Instrument Recycling Company.

Yeah that's it, MIRC for Musical Instrument Reclamation Corporation.

https://reverb.com/news/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-refurbished-guitars-from-mirc

Yeah. I'm back here late but that's who I was thinking of.

 

[Space1999]

I have two factory seconds. One I cannot find what they thought was wrong, but I did have to wrestle the neck into submission because it was a little goofy.

The second 2nd is a Sheraton where some one had touched the wood on the face of the guitar with a bare hand and the paint wouldn’t take.

They actually painted twice I believe because I have never seen such a deep Wine colored finish. The spot is barely noticeable.

So you can have happy accidents with 2nds sometimes but overall, I don’t think the price incentive for Epi 2nds is enough for me to consider buying one ever again.

As far as Korean vs Chinese, I have one Korean left and it is a Sheraton. Noticeably heavier and not as stream lined as the Chinese version I have, but a better quality paint job.

Pat

 

[Space1999]

Rereading the topic, I have 3 Chinese Les Pauls, 2 of which are custom pro’s.
They are far nicer than any of the Korean’s I have owned and I attribute that to weight reduction, more sleek feel, hardware, always Grover, and pu’s, those being the Pro Buckers.

Generally, in my world, guys bought Korean Epi’s and then gutted the electronics and pu’s and put what ever they wanted in them. They were inexpensive and easily modded.

I didn’t have to do any of that with the Chinese models and I like that a lot.
The only stickler being that the 2016 and 2018 models I have were not painted especially well where the neck binding met the neck.

But I could care less. My SG is a good example. It’s an under $600 guitar, IBG, Ebony Fretboard, ProBuckers, and Grover locking tuners. With really nice neck binding that you are not going to find on any standard SG’s.

The Les Paul Customs are lighter than the Korean’s I have had and have CTS pots and a treble bleed circuit with ProBuckers.

The last Les Paul is a Trad II and that LP is an amazing buy at around $400 used, Didn’t have to do anything to it except play it. The guitar being a more vintage vibe has Ceramic Pros in it and a baseball neck, but with a carved top.

That sucker has tone for days. The Trad series are easily Epiphone’s best kept secret. Shhhhhhh!!!!

I am totally sold on the Chinese Epi guitar and, horses for courses, I did not like the Korean models very much that I have bought in the past.

Just my opinion. That and $12 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

Pat