Noisy P90 in the new Coronet

[andare]

Hey everybody,

I recently bought a new Coronet (sorry no good pictures).
It's a great guitar with a few minor quirks that I plan to address sooner or later (moving the strap button to the upper horn, levelling the frets, shielding the cavities and a new set of strings).

The P90 is great but it has two issues: it's too low and it hums like crazy. I will buy some Lollar shims once they become available on Thomann (I live in Europe) but the hum just makes it unusable with any amount of gain.
I've been watching a ton of videos with P90s and none seem to hum like mine. I'm talking almost twice as much hum as my Strat and Jazzmaster. I've tested this with a solid state amp, a tube amp and direct into my audio interface.

So I'm interested in a hum-cancelling P90. I keep hearing great things about the Mojotone 56 Quiet Coil, however I can't find any video comparing it to a single coil P90, only a couple of demos.
I guess it has side by side coils but it really seems to have the same balls and cleanup as a real P90 minus the hum.

Does anybody have any experience with this pickup?

Thanks in advance for any input you can offer,

Andre

 

[soulman969]

Welcome to the forum. I'll take a shot with one suggestion.

Your description of the hum and belief the pickups may be set too low and limiting output may be an indication of bad pickups. Shorts or a partial breakage in the coil can cause noise and lowered output.

You may want to send that one back to Thomann before making any modifications and have them ship out a new one before you begin tinkering with it.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

Another possibility, on the same lines though, is that there may be a cold solder joint to the ground wire.
If you're experiencing a lot more noise than your other single coil pickups under the same conditions, then you may want to look into one of the problems soulman referred to or a combination of these issues. Do you have a multimeter?

I've not tried any Mojotone pickups, but generally speaking most hum cancelling P90s get you there, but will lose a bit of that top end spank you get in the initial attack (probably not so noticeable in a mix though - you'll lose most of it in compression). IMHO, a lot of hum cancelling P90s end up sounding very much like a Duncan JB (which I also like a lot) particularly when you add gain to it. From a player's perspective though, that's the only thing that keep me from using them, but if you just want the P90 upper midrange growl in that form factor and in a recorded mix, they work well.

 

[Darkness]

That doesn't sound normal to me. I have two P90 guitars and neither hums as bad as you describe. One is a hollow Casino and the other is an LP Special, of the two the LP Special is more quiet and probably more similar in build to yours.

 

[andare]

Thanks everybody for chiming in.
You all make good points but I believe the pickup and the wiring is fine.

I've tested the ground connections with a multimeter and everything checks out. The resistance is 8.7k, which is spot on for a P90. It responds to dynamics and the pots also work very well.

I set up relief and action to standard specs but there are still 5-6mm between the top of the pickup and the strings. You can see this in the official product images on the Epiphone website:




P90s need to be much closer, like 2mm, according to what I've read. For now I've raised the pole pieces for more output but it's not a permanent solution. That's why shims exist.
I've read about this issue on other forums so this is not a problem.

The noise I hear is definitely single coil hum. It changes as I turn with respect to the amp (ground noise doesn't) and it doesn't change if I touch/don't touch metal parts on the guitar.
There is a bit of extra noise that goes away if I touch metal on the guitar. This is consistent with lack of shielding in the cavities. It's barely noticeable but I'll shield the cavities when I change the strings anyway.

Ok it's not twice as loud as the hum in my Strat but it's definitely louder than a normal single coil. Apparently it's because P90s have a wider coil. I found many threads on forums about this issue.

I will check all the connections again when I take the strings off next time but for now it all seems fine, very clean soldering work I have to say.

I understand hum cancelling coils kill some of the high end sizzle, there's no way around that.

Sorry if it seems I'm shutting down your suggestions. I have some experience with guitar and pedal electronics so I'm confident the pickup works correctly, it just has a low signal to noise ratio. I also might be too sensitive to these things.
I appreciate your help!

 

[Noodling Guitars]

The noise I hear is definitely single coil hum. It changes as I turn with respect to the amp (ground noise doesn't) and it doesn't change if I touch/don't touch metal parts on the guitar.
There is a bit of extra noise that goes away if I touch metal on the guitar. This is consistent with lack of shielding in the cavities. It's barely noticeable but I'll shield the cavities when I change the strings anyway.

Ah, then you probably have the same problem I have at home - it just happens that this set of pickups amplify certain unwanted EMF signals more severely than other pickups (that's why EMGs exist ). So for me, there's a certain area in my bedroom where if I don't point my guitar towards a certain direction, it'll hum like crazy. Shielding helps a bit, but won't kill it off completely.

 

[BGood]

A P90 is a noisy pickup by definition. Too noisy or not-too-bad noisy is a personal view. You learn to work around it by finding the right position relative to the amp and rolling down the volume when you don't play. Strat players have learned that a long time ago. Don't play close to the amp, the closer, the noisier it is. And no, a P90 is not the best choice for high gain.

I say embrace the hum or look elsewhere for your fix.

On my six P90 guitars, the bridge pup is at 4 or 5 mm from strings. Closer is just too shrill and probably noisier !

 

[soulman969]

Ah, thanks for including more info about your experience with the guitar and the measurements you took. Those would rule out an open coil. I hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction and that you also keep posting with us.

 

[andare]

Ah, thanks for including more info about your experience with the guitar and the measurements you took. Those would rule out an open coil. I hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction and that you also keep posting with us.

Thank you, I'll post an update soon. I'm still learning to use this pickup. Today I played a bit and the hum bothered me less, I got lost in the beautiful crunch and dynamics

 

[andare]

A P90 is a noisy pickup by definition. Too noisy or not-too-bad noisy is a personal view. You learn to work around it by finding the right position relative to the amp and rolling down the volume when you don't play. Strat players have learned that a long time ago. Don't play close to the amp, the closer, the noisier it is. And no, a P90 is not the best choice for high gain.

I say embrace the hum or look elsewhere for your fix.

On my six P90 guitars, the bridge pup is at 4 or 5 mm from strings. Closer is just too shrill and probably noisier !

Good to know. I'll buy a set of shims and experiment with different heights.

 

[andare]

So I found this Jared James Nichols rig rundown that's full of P90s and they hum just like my Coronet. You can hear the hum as he plays and he's constantly riding the volume knob. He even addresses the issue at one point.
So I guess there really is nothing unusual about my guitar

 

[phonepi]

@andare : here is a quite easy tip that you could try on your P-90 pickups : shielding the coils all over with adhesive aluminium foil. I did this on all my "big sized" single coils with success, reducing significantly the sensivity to hum, buzzz and adverse noises :

P-90 from GFS :

P-90 from Roswell Pickups :

JazzMaster-like pickups from Roswell :

P

 

[andare]

@andare : here is a quite easy tip that you try on your P-90 pickups : shielding the coils all over with adhesive aluminium foil. I did this on all my "big sized" single coils with success, reducing significantly the sensivity to hum, buzzz and adverse noises :

P-90 from GFS :

P-90 from Roswell Pickups :

JazzMaster-like pickups from Roswell :

So you shielded the whole P90 minus the pole pieces? And of course you grounded the shielding. Same way one would shield the cavities? Any loss of high end?

 

[phonepi]

So you shielded the whole P90 minus the pole pieces? And of course you grounded the shielding. Same way one would shield the cavities? Any loss of high end?

Yes. That's it. Shielding and grounding the pickups, the cavities and the pickguard - when possible, of course :

No, I don't notice any significant loss in treble, moreover vs. the advantages of a significant adverse noise reduction on the whole instrument.

Also, a short, direct wiring is important to fight hum and noises - when possible, of course ! Below, two examples :

I must confess that a great number of guitars - no matter brand or price - reveals very often messy wirings when opened...

P

 

[Noodling Guitars]

So I found this Jared James Nichols rig rundown that's full of P90s and they hum just like my Coronet. You can hear the hum as he plays and he's constantly riding the volume knob. He even addresses the issue at one point.
So I guess there really is nothing unusual about my guitar

His are microphonic too!!!

 

[andare]

His are microphonic too!!!

Mine isn't :(
maybe it's a good thing. I have an old Japanese guitar that is microphonic and it's hard to control

 

[andare]

Yes. That's it. Shielding and grounding the pickups, the cavities and the pickguard - when possible, of course :

No, I don't notice any significant loss in treble, moreover vs. the advantages of a significant adverse noise reduction on the whole instrument.

Also, a short, direct wiring is important to fight hum and noises - when possible, of course ! Below, two examples :

I must confess that a great number of guitars - no matter brand or price - reveals very often messy wirings when opened...

P

Yes, my Squier Jazzmaster was a spaghetti monster inside! This Epiphone OTOH is very clean, short wires, good solder joints, no mess.

 

[BlueSquirrel]

@andare : here is a quite easy tip that you could try on your P-90 pickups : shielding the coils all over with adhesive aluminium foil. I did this on all my "big sized" single coils with success, reducing significantly the sensivity to hum, buzzz and adverse noises :

P-90 from GFS :

P-90 from Roswell Pickups :

JazzMaster-like pickups from Roswell :

P

I had never heard of that. That's a great tip, thanks!

 

[BlueSquirrel]

Hey everybody,

I recently bought a new Coronet (sorry no good pictures).
It's a great guitar with a few minor quirks that I plan to address sooner or later (moving the strap button to the upper horn, levelling the frets, shielding the cavities and a new set of strings).

The P90 is great but it has two issues: it's too low and it hums like crazy. I will buy some Lollar shims once they become available on Thomann (I live in Europe) but the hum just makes it unusable with any amount of gain.
I've been watching a ton of videos with P90s and none seem to hum like mine. I'm talking almost twice as much hum as my Strat and Jazzmaster. I've tested this with a solid state amp, a tube amp and direct into my audio interface.

So I'm interested in a hum-cancelling P90. I keep hearing great things about the Mojotone 56 Quiet Coil, however I can't find any video comparing it to a single coil P90, only a couple of demos.
I guess it has side by side coils but it really seems to have the same balls and cleanup as a real P90 minus the hum.

Does anybody have any experience with this pickup?

Thanks in advance for any input you can offer,

Andre

Do you use a lot of gain / effects?
I found that playing with gain made the hum more noticeable.

Btw I think that is why P94 pickups (humbuckers that sound close to P90s) were invented.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Just one more thought.

Have you checked the bridge is grounded properly?