Slash goes to Eleven.

[Raiyn]

From the "Is it real or is it Spinal Tap?" file.

The Slash 2.0 pickups are based on the GNR rocker's flagship APH-2 set – which he's used for nearly a decade – but make one essential tweak​

​

Seymour Duncan has teamed up with Slash to release the Slash 2.0 humbucker set – a pair of pickups that update the electric guitar hero's flagship APH-2 set.​

​

In a continuation of its fine signature product releasing form, Seymour Duncan has once again joined forces with one its biggest ambassadors, who has been using his APH-2 humbuckers for nearly a decade.​

​

For his new set, though, the top hat-toting titan sought out Seymour Duncan’s expertise in making a hotter-wound, higher-output set, which didn’t compromise the original’s clean and overdriven tones in any way.​

​

According to the brand, Slash’s need for a louder set of humbuckers emerged from his extensive touring activities with Myles Kennedy and The Conspirators and GNR, with Slash himself explaining, “I've found on occasion that I needed a louder pickup for certain live applications”.​

​

“For some reason, certain guitars that I have are quieter than others, and I started finding I needed louder pickups in those guitars, and I went to Seymour Duncan,” he added.​

​

“They’re higher output, but they don’t add any distortion. There’s no gain, just a higher level.”​

​

Owing to Slash’s needs, the Slash 2.0 humbuckers were given a hotter wind, meaning they promise to deliver the same Slash sound and tonal capacity as the original APH-2s, but with a little more output – delivered via rough cast Alnico 2 magnets.​

​

“The Slash 2.0 is basically the same as my Alnico Pro II, same tonality, same great clarity,” Slash added. “But it's hotter. I asked Seymour if he could make a version of my pickup just a wee bit louder & he did just that. Same tone, just louder.”​

​

The Slash 2.0 pickups are available in an array of finishes – black, black-nickel cover, gold cover, nickel cover, raw-nickel cover, reverse zebra and zebra – and can come as a set or standalone humbuckers.​

​

Sets start from $238, while single pickups start from $119.​

​

Visit Seymour Duncan(opens in new tab) to find out more.​

​

​

​

​

You know Jobobanana is hot on his heels.

 

[syco]

Cash Grab !

 

[Noodling Guitars]

It's a bit of both tbh. I'm sure they're a bit higher output as advertised. Probably the simplest thing for SD to do.

I love how this is an implicitly acknowledgement (not that it wasn't obvious before) that those buying Slash LPs don't get his pickups out of the box. At least they're making these sets pretty much the same price as ver 1.0 - and my guess is people with 1.0 wouldn't really care THAT much about getting 2.0 - not like he toured or recorded extensively with 2.0.

 

[Raiyn]

Here's the tale of the tape:
Slash 1.0
DCR: Neck: 8.30k, Bridge: 8.9k



Slash 2.0
DCR: Neck: 8.8k, Bridge: 9.38k



So approximately 500 Ω of difference per pickup, and allegedly a bit of a bass bump? Allegedly because a graph without a scale is useless.

Seems to me his sound guy should be able to compensate for all the difference.

Mr. Slash, why did you collaborate with Seymore Plankton to make these pickups?

 

[Sureshot]

Luckiest guitar player who ever lived. Gibson through Marshall. Great tone, Lemme keep puttin out stuff that basically equates to Gibson through Marshall. Get that money man!

 

[Sureshot]

And I absolutely love Guns n Roses. It's a Les Paul through a Marshall. Amazing sound! He's not doing anything we haven't heard before though. Never got people trying to chase down Les Paul copies that some guy made.

 

[Sureshot]

The new one goes to 11!

 

[Raiyn]

I've been digging around a bit on this.

According to what I've been able to find online, modern standard pickup / magnet wire has a nominal tolerance on its ohms (Ω) per foot of ±7%.

Pickup winders make pickups based on the number of turns on the bobbin - not the actual resistance because of that variation in the wire. The machine will count to X thousand and there you go. This is accepted industry practice because mechanical / digital wind counters exist.

Published specs are what they were going for, not what you're guaranteed to get. What the prototype ended up being If you like. Excluding all other possible variables the wire alone will give you a resistance variance of ±7%

According to Slash and Seymour Duncan the 2.0's are the exact same as the 1.0 "just slightly hotter".

Slash 1.0
DCR: Neck: 8.30k, Bridge: 8.9k

So going on the premise that published numbers are the target and going with a ±7% tolerance on the wire gives you a ± of 581 Ω for the neck and 623 Ω for the bridge.

So what we're really getting is (rounded to single decimal)

Slash 1.0
Neck between 7.7K and 8.9K
Bridge between 8.3K and 9.5K

Slash 2.0
DCR: Neck: 8.8k, Bridge: 9.38k

So these numbers look like the high side of the spec tolerance for the original set.

So what if we applied the same math to the 2.0? With everything being "the same"
7% of 8.8KΩ is 616 Ω
7% of 9.38KΩ is 656.6 Ω

So what that means is you can expect.
Slash 2.0
Neck between 8.2K and 9.4K
Bridge between 8.7K and 10.0K

Don't get fixated on the high numbers, the lows are still within spec of the 1.0's and the highs aren't much beyond the high side of the originals either.

It's not just Seymour Duncan with a ±7% tolerance.
DiMarzio is in the same boat

Published specs on my Gravity Storm set
Neck: 12.56K
Bridge: 15.19K

The as tested specs
Neck: 11.85K
Bridge: 14.19K

The Neck is 710 Ω short or 5.65% off nominal.
The Bridge is 1KΩ short or 6.58% off nominal.

To be fair, sometimes they get it damn near dead nuts.

Carvin published specs.
S22J Neck 7.6K
S22B Bridge 13.3K

As tested
S22J Neck 7.66K
S22B Bridge 13.36K

Unfortunately young Mr. Kiesel decided to kill that division / line so there are no new ones to be had. However, they didn't have magic wire. They just had low production. My pickups were made the week they shipped them to me.

TL-DR

Slash 2.0 by the numbers isn't that much different than the 1.0. They even said it's the same thing but "with more output" (read hotter / more resistance). I worked with the information they gave as well as information from other manufacturers.

It is my belief that a competent sound guy could make them sound exactly the same just by moving a slider or two.

That said: If you have the originals based on all the math above I don't think you need to spend the money on the new ones - especially if you've got a hot set of O.G.'s.

I await an independent review - i.e. not from somewhere where SD is a sponsor or provided product.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

I've been digging around a bit on this.

According to what I've been able to find online, modern standard pickup / magnet wire has a nominal tolerance on its ohms (Ω) per foot of ±7%.

Pickup winders make pickups based on the number of turns on the bobbin - not the actual resistance because of that variation in the wire. The machine will count to X thousand and there you go. This is accepted industry practice because mechanical / digital wind counters exist.

Published specs are what they were going for, not what you're guaranteed to get. What the prototype ended up being If you like. Excluding all other possible variables the wire alone will give you a resistance variance of ±7%

According to Slash and Seymour Duncan the 2.0's are the exact same as the 1.0 "just slightly hotter".



So going on the premise that published numbers are the target and going with a ±7% tolerance on the wire gives you a ± of 581 Ω for the neck and 623 Ω for the bridge.

So what we're really getting is (rounded to single decimal)

Slash 1.0
Neck between 7.7K and 8.9K
Bridge between 8.3K and 9.5K


So these numbers look like the high side of the spec tolerance for the original set.

So what if we applied the same math to the 2.0? With everything being "the same"
7% of 8.8KΩ is 616 Ω
7% of 9.38KΩ is 656.6 Ω

So what that means is you can expect.
Slash 2.0
Neck between 8.2K and 9.4K
Bridge between 8.7K and 10.0K

Don't get fixated on the high numbers, the lows are still within spec of the 1.0's and the highs aren't much beyond the high side of the originals either.

It's not just Seymour Duncan with a ±7% tolerance.
DiMarzio is in the same boat

Published specs on my Gravity Storm set
Neck: 12.56K
Bridge: 15.19K

The as tested specs
Neck: 11.85K
Bridge: 14.19K

The Neck is 710 Ω short or 5.65% off nominal.
The Bridge is 1KΩ short or 6.58% off nominal.

To be fair, sometimes they get it damn near dead nuts.

Carvin published specs.
S22J Neck 7.6K
S22B Bridge 13.3K

As tested
S22J Neck 7.66K
S22B Bridge 13.36K

Unfortunately young Mr. Kiesel decided to kill that division / line so there are no new ones to be had. However, they didn't have magic wire. They just had low production. My pickups were made the week they shipped them to me.

TL-DR

Slash 2.0 by the numbers isn't that much different than the 1.0. They even said it's the same thing but "with more output" (read hotter / more resistance). I worked with the information they gave as well as information from other manufacturers.

It is my belief that a competent sound guy could make them sound exactly the same just by moving a slider or two.

That said: If you have the originals based on all the math above I don't think you need to spend the money on the new ones - especially if you've got a hot set of O.G.'s.

I await an independent review - i.e. not from somewhere where SD is a sponsor or provided product.

They could've also just increased the winds marginally and used an ever so slightly larger magnet. The thing with a large manufacturer like SD is that they can get parts like that.

 

[Raiyn]

They could've also just increased the winds marginally and used an ever so slightly larger magnet. The thing with a large manufacturer like SD is that they can get parts like that.

I'm not really questioning if there's a small increase in winds - the published (nominal) resistance would suggest that.

There is the point to be made that a slightly larger magnet doesn't count as "the same". Their words, not mine.

Edit: Maybe they put a bit more charge on the magnet, but they won't tell anyone and that's still not "the same".

The question here is whether it's worth it when they overlap so much. I also wonder why Slash doesn't pay his sound guy enough to adjust his sound / monitors to account for a minor difference. Literally the first thing I thought when I saw "a version of my pickup just a wee bit louder" was the Spinal Tap "This one goes to Eleven" gag.

Despite what some might claim, magnet wire is magnet wire. It isn't made with ground unicorn horn and pixie farts. There's going to be a tolerance variance and despite being a "large manufacturer" SD isn't immune to that.

SD (or Larry DiMarzio, or whoever) is not going to sit there and pay someone to measure ohms per foot - not for $238 a set. They're going to buy what's cost effective, and use off the shelf parts. It boils down to many turns the prototype Slash liked had. That, they have machines for.

They also don't offer any other info beyond (nominal) resistances and useless scaleless bar graphs. Give me inductance, give me a useable freq chart, show me something that isn't marketing spin.

Nobody's saying "don't buy them" if they suit a need, but if you have a set of 1.0's maybe you don't need to yank them for what could be remarkably similar.

It's my opinion, at this point, that they're a cash grab. It wouldn't be the first time someone slapped their name on something for a buck even if it was literally something like a new color.

Edit: As I like Steve Vai, and own a set of his Gravity Storms, I looked at his pickups and specifically at the Evolution / Evo 2 bridges - which are damn close. They at least gave me something to chew on.

Although Steve was happy with the basic sound of the original Evolution® bridge pickup, he felt that a pickup with similar tone and less output would be useful — particularly for live performances. He also requested the frequency response in the 4000Hz to 5000Hz range to be reduced slightly compared to the original Evolution® Bridge Model. The Evo 2™ accomplishes these tasks by using a less powerful magnet to reduce the pickup's power,​

Again, if you have the Evo 1.... but this at least is more than a "wee bit louder" as it's a wee bit more specific as to how they got there. Personally, I'd turn a knob or two or fiddle with my EQ pedal.

***In case anyone takes offense: my tone is civil and I'm expressing an opinion / trying to look at gear objectively.***

 

[soulman969]

Where's the "I don't care 'cause I ain't buyin' 'em" choice?

I can see where having SD wind a set for his specific needs makes sense. And I can also see why a decision was made to not make just one set but to promote them for sale.

Sure it's a cash grab but ol' Seymour has never been known as one of the world's great philanthropists. If he can make another buck he's gonna make another buck.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

I'm not really questioning if there's a small increase in winds - the published (nominal) resistance would suggest that.

There is the point to be made that a slightly larger magnet doesn't count as "the same". Their words, not mine.

Edit: Maybe they put a bit more charge on the magnet, but they won't tell anyone and that's still not "the same".

The question here is whether it's worth it when they overlap so much. I also wonder why Slash doesn't pay his sound guy enough to adjust his sound / monitors to account for a minor difference. Literally the first thing I thought when I saw "a version of my pickup just a wee bit louder" was the Spinal Tap "This one goes to Eleven" gag.

Despite what some might claim, magnet wire is magnet wire. It isn't made with ground unicorn horn and pixie farts. There's going to be a tolerance variance and despite being a "large manufacturer" SD isn't immune to that.

SD (or Larry DiMarzio, or whoever) is not going to sit there and pay someone to measure ohms per foot - not for $238 a set. They're going to buy what's cost effective, and use off the shelf parts. It boils down to many turns the prototype Slash liked had. That, they have machines for.

They also don't offer any other info beyond (nominal) resistances and useless scaleless bar graphs. Give me inductance, give me a useable freq chart, show me something that isn't marketing spin.

Nobody's saying "don't buy them" if they suit a need, but if you have a set of 1.0's maybe you don't need to yank them for what could be remarkably similar.

It's my opinion, at this point, that they're a cash grab. It wouldn't be the first time someone slapped their name on something for a buck even if it was literally something like a new color.

Edit: As I like Steve Vai, and own a set of his Gravity Storms, I looked at his pickups and specifically at the Evolution / Evo 2 bridges - which are damn close. They at least gave me something to chew on.

Although Steve was happy with the basic sound of the original Evolution® bridge pickup, he felt that a pickup with similar tone and less output would be useful — particularly for live performances. He also requested the frequency response in the 4000Hz to 5000Hz range to be reduced slightly compared to the original Evolution® Bridge Model. The Evo 2™ accomplishes these tasks by using a less powerful magnet to reduce the pickup's power,​

Again, if you have the Evo 1.... but this at least is more than a "wee bit louder" as it's a wee bit more specific as to how they got there. Personally, I'd turn a knob or two or fiddle with my EQ pedal.

***In case anyone takes offense: my tone is civil and I'm expressing an opinion / trying to look at gear objectively.***

I dunno, I mean I kinda get where you're coming from but at the same time, that potentially applies to a whole class of Alnico II based PAF variations. There's a lot of overlap in that stuff and even the Epi Probuckers fall within that range. In that sense, is it a cash grab? Well.. yes - but not one that's particularly nefarious given the circumstances and the general culture of the guitar community. Besides, it's just one more flavor to choose from. It's not like Slash is changing out all of his pickups to 2.0s either. In fact - I'd almost think that the 2.0s would be less appealing to anyone chasing the GNR/ OG Slash tone cause it's essentially him saying "this ain't it".

 

[Raiyn]

I dunno, I mean I kinda get where you're coming from but at the same time, that potentially applies to a whole class of Alnico II based PAF variations. There's a lot of overlap in that stuff and even the Epi Probuckers fall within that range.

There's only so much you can do with magnets and wire, the rest is marketing.

In that sense, is it a cash grab? Well.. yes - but not one that's particularly nefarious given the circumstances and the general culture of the guitar community.

You're not wrong, and I agree it's not necessarily nefarious.

We wouldn't have much of an industry / culture if the majority of us weren't chasing someone else's tone. Throw in a bit of an inferiority complex, some confirmation bias, stir with some marketing spin and cook over a forum fire.

Now you're cooking with G.A.S.

As I said, I like Steve Vai, but I'm not chasing his tone.
I bought the Gravity Storms specifically to put in my Jag, because I figured it'd be fun. I was right. (They were also cheaper than the Bare Knuckles I was looking at.)

That guitar gets mainly used for 80's style post-punk and grunge. I'm not over here reliving "Crossroads" or playing "Bad Horsie"* I just wanted some more out of that guitar than what the stock "Fireballs" gave me and someone else already did Super Distortions in a Jag. That, and the idea of "Gravity Storm" pickups going into a "Skyburst" guitar with a black guard made me smile.

*Disclosure: I own an O.G. Morley Bad Horsie wah. I bought it used cheap off a buddy and physically - not tonally built my pedalboard around it. I also have Vai artwork straps for some of my guitars because I like the designs.

Besides, it's just one more flavor to choose from.

Without meaning to be insulting, it's like Natural Vanilla vs Vanilla. The same ground is being covered. Once you add the EQ of your setup... things are starting to melt.
This is why I'm saying that going from 1.0 to 2.0 probably isn't necessary. It's also why I keep making the crack about the sound guy. If you're doing a fresh project and you're looking for something in that palette, by all means consider it.

It's not like Slash is changing out all of his pickups to 2.0s either. In fact - I'd almost think that the 2.0s would be less appealing to anyone chasing the GNR/ OG Slash tone cause it's essentially him saying "this ain't it".

A good point, one that I have nothing to add to.